For those who hate Goku's characterization in Super, who do you blame? Toei or Toriyama?

Rotation Advertisements

We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum.

If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away.

Click here to Register!

If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk

If you're already a member please log in to your account:

Pages:
1
2

For those who hate Goku's characterization in Super, who do you blame? Toei or Toriyama?
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 24 2017, 12:56 AM (1,103 Views)
DBZAOTA482	Jul 24 2017, 12:56 AM Post #1
Posts: 1,798 Group: Member Member #5,093 Joined: August 2, 2010 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon Ball/Z, One Piece, Akira, School Rumble, Detective Conan. What Browser do you use? Google Chrome, Internet Explorer.	Goku these days gets a lot of hate these days for the way he acts in Super especially in wake of the Universal Survival arc. In the past, people have blamed Toei but between the interview of Toriyama expressing disappointment over the anime "making" him a "righteous" hero and the other pretty much saying Goku doesn't give a s* about his family... people began to look the other way. I've called out Toei in the past for the way he's characterized in Super and the franchise as a whole for essentially throwing Goku x Chi-Chi under a bus these days but I don't think it's fair to blame them entirely anymore. Toei may play up his stupidity to obnoxious degrees but at least they make an effort to add substance to his character with what little they have to work with. Toyatoro's Goku, to me, is a total a*. On top of the "doesn't know what kissing is" gag still being in the manga, he demonstratively doesn't give a s* about his family as he only cared about avenging himself against Goku Black and giving Gohan s*** for not being at the Universe 6 tournament. Toyotaro even shifted the emotion of a reuniting moment between Goku and his family all to Vegeta in the manga version of the Future Trunks arc. "Reuniting in the Anime & Manga" This is important as the manga is supposedly closure to Toriyama's vision for the series.



+ Pyrus	Jul 24 2017, 01:47 AM Post #2
Posts: 39,342 Group: Legend Member #5,088 Joined: August 1, 2010 Gender Not Specified Country Chile	It's both. Toei has to get a bit of direction from somewhere.
	Spoiler: click to toggle


Thiln	Jul 24 2017, 02:36 AM Post #3
Posts: 2,481 Group: Member Member #12,166 Joined: March 23, 2015 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball, Attack on Titan What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Hokuto no Ken, Berserk, Dragon Ball, Rurouni Kenshin, Attack on Titan, Kuroshitsuji	Goku has always been a shot-sighted dolt who's primary interest is in getting his usual supply of leaden flesh and cartilage bludgeoning his face and vice versa. Anything having to do with the motivations or general intricacies of why he's fighting usually go over his head. Come to think of it - the only significant occasions where he realised the error of his judgement or gave meaningful reference to the cause was during his war against Freeza and when he came to the realisation that Gohan didn't enjoy fighting. Those two moments alongside Goku becoming enraged by Black's expressed revelation to him about having murdered his screaming terrified family were some of the few moments when the morality and trauma of the fight really resonated with Goku. Past those glimpses, however, he's a persistent fly who harasses many with his insatiable lust for combat and lack of etiquette during social gatherings. I personally haven't cared much for his character since Namek.



+ ThePrinceOfSaiyans	Jul 24 2017, 03:04 AM Post #4
魔王子 Posts: 9,797 Group: Elite Member Member #10,492 Joined: November 16, 2013 Gender Male Favourite Anime Dragon Ball Z What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball	I'd blame Toei, since Toyotaro's Goku is more or less fine. It's an over-correction on their part.
	Battle Power Guide 3DS FC: 2707-1669-7946 XBL/PSN: MaOujiBejita


+ Son-Goku	Jul 24 2017, 03:14 AM Post #5
孫悟空 Posts: 13,358 Group: Elite Member Member #12,886 Joined: January 24, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime DB/DBZ/DBS, Code Geass, Gintama, YYH, Death Note, and SAO. What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, and Naruto.	Goku has had a pretty serious and meaningful attitude throughout Dragon Ball/Z. Beginning of the series he was a kid and didn't take anything seriously. After some bonds were made with friends, things got seriously. When Colonel Silver "blew up" the flying nimbus Goku didn't cheerfully fight him. He took the fight again Blue seriously after Krillin was pounded. Goku was ready to take on Tien after he had broken Yamcha's leg. He had a pretty negative opinion towards Tien until Tien turned good. After Krillin was killed Goku was furious and showed no mercy to Tambourine and Piccolo. He wasn't doing it because they were stronger, he was doing it because his friends were killed. Then against Piccolo Jr. in the 23rd tournament he had a serious approach, but also slightly peaceful. He never stopped fighting, but he still gave Piccolo a senzu at the end. After five years Goku never sought him out to battle. When Raditz arrived he was terrified and only fought him because he kidnapped Gohan. Then he trained on King Kai's planet to defeat the saiyans who threatened his home. He was silently furious when he fought against Nappa and did what needed to be done. Against Vegeta he was serious, but excited via the saiyan blood, but not childish. Later on Namek he was cheerful towards his friends and then easily dealt with the Ginyu Force and tried showing mercy. The fight against Frieza was to protect his friends once again. Goku was of course excited to hear about him, but Frieza was in his way and murdered Vegeta. Then after killing Krillin and turning into a Super Saiyan, Goku pounded Frieza away and still showed mercy. In preparation for Cell, Goku still fought against Cell. But he left it to his son, not himself. Still Goku hasn't acted childish since he was a child. Buu Arc comes around and Goku fights in turn against Yakon, it needed to be done. Then not wanting to he fights against Vegeta. Then to buy time fights against Buu. Then comes back to life doesn't plan on fighting until fused. Then the final fight against Kid Buu where Goku tries and saves a spot for Vegeta to fight. Then Dragon Ball Super comes around and Goku challenges everyone. Acts extremely childish and immature, rarely serious. The only serious moments he has are killing Frieza and fighting against Black Goku and Zamasu momentarily. He's in a tournament where everyone but one universe dies and he's over here like Zen-Chan! This isn't even the same character. Goku acted childish maybe like a couple times in the original series. They also make Goku way dumber in both the manga and the anime. Goku has never been one for certain aspects of commonsense and knowledge of everyday life. But he isn't a complete moron, he has actually a very smart character and a brilliant strategist. His fighting throughout Dragon Ball/Z proves so. The blame goes to both Toei and Toriyama, they don't know the character of Goku very well at all.
	RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power


~~PikUpYourPantsPatrol~~	Jul 24 2017, 05:06 AM Post #6
Posts: 399 Group: GTFO Member #13,945 Joined: July 14, 2017 Gender Male Country United States	Probably Toriyama, he ruined Gohan and countless others after all. Piccolo used to be a cynical loner badass, now he's a babysitter and even in the TOP he fights as a team. Gohan used to be tenacious and passionate. Now he's a whipped dog and way too humble. He's so bland and corny. I can accept change but they just do a 180 and ruin characters. Gohan pretty much is and aspires to be an average citizen, why? Where's the individuality and fire he once had?



Goddess Ultimecia	Jul 24 2017, 02:57 PM Post #7
Posts: 10,145 Group: RP Moderator Member #8,473 Joined: October 26, 2012 Gender Male Country None	It's nice to see people are finally hopping on the "they f*ed up Goku" train after two years. Me personally, the point of no return was when he willingly almost emptied Universe 7 with Beerus in a c* measuring contest. The problem with Super is that they've taken Toriyama's interviews to heart, to a fault, and now their version of Goku is basically the anti-thesis to what Toriyama complained about. And as a result, you don't have a Goku that is atleast somewhat grounded to the original manga version of Goku (even Funi is more accurate than Super.), you end up with a Goku that is alien to both what he was, and ends up less accurate than most other versions. This is essentially Goku who had his worst qualities exaggerated to a ludicrous degree, while any of his good qualities were practically thrown out the window. They've quite literally flanderized Goku. Super is the only part of dragonball that was able to move Goku from my second favorite character, all the way down to out of the top 10.
	NinjaSushi Colouring Credit to NinjaSushi for the colouring


superperfectnerd	Jul 24 2017, 03:14 PM Post #8
Posts: 3,709 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	Goku is like the Omni King, just needs another version of himself to endlessly play with. And it's both but I think Toei have exaggerated him. For me, he isn't yet ruined as long as they GO SOMEWHERE with his character. It actually makes sense for Goku to get more and more reckless as he gets stronger and runs out of people to fight. I mean Vegeta is neck and neck but then Goku has Kaioken so he needs a tournament to find new fighters but nobody leftt in his universe to challenge him etc It makes sense but I want to see him actually learn something, then I'll be happy with it. In Z Goku had other threats and perhaps hoped Gohan would keep him occupied, now he doesn't.



+ Ssj3vegito96	Jul 24 2017, 04:19 PM Post #9
Posts: 10,327 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	I blame toei. Nobody was this annoyed at gokus character throughout Z so why would it be toriyama's fault? I'm betting what happened is that when toriyama said he was always dissatisfied with how toei made goku out to be too heroic, toei took that and exagerrated And being reckless isn't the only problem I have. It has a lot to do with them making him seem really dumb when he's not supposed to be dumb he's just simple minded Toriyama and toyotaro handled his character better imo. It's more in line with the development he's had throughout the series. To be fair though like superperfectnerd said I usually don't see too much of a problem with how goku is in the anime. There is literally nobody in the universe he can have a good fight with. At the same time he's gotten so strong and he wants someone to test himself against. So it's not surprising he comes off as reckless and careless. It's more so just not liking this characterization as much as the manga's
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


+ Son-Goku	Jul 24 2017, 04:30 PM Post #10
孫悟空 Posts: 13,358 Group: Elite Member Member #12,886 Joined: January 24, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime DB/DBZ/DBS, Code Geass, Gintama, YYH, Death Note, and SAO. What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, and Naruto.	Even Toyble hasn't handled Goku very well. He branched it off from how Goku was portrayed in the movies. Much more bearable than Super Goku, but still not the Goku we know.
	RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power


+ Ssj3vegito96	Jul 25 2017, 02:08 AM Post #11
Posts: 10,327 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	Greenough Jul 24 2017, 04:30 PM Even Toyble hasn't handled Goku very well. He branched it off from how Goku was portrayed in the movies. Much more bearable than Super Goku, but still not the Goku we know. So what? Goku isn't a static character. "The goku we know", I'm guessing you mean from Z, was a flawed goku. Not in that he's poorly written but in that he has his well known flaws. He has progressed into what he is now in the Super manga; little more serious, likes to plan more, shows more compassion for others, etc. More heroic like in the movies as you said
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


superperfectnerd	Jul 25 2017, 02:55 PM Post #12
Posts: 3,709 Group: Member Member #11,519 Joined: July 15, 2014	I'd say Goku is regressing, which is fine, as long as there's a point to it and as long as it goes somewhere, he isn't just expected to continue on with no repercussions for his warrior mentality combined with his recklessness. Tbf to the series, Whis has addressed both Goku and Vegeta's flaws multiple times but they just haven't learnt anything yet, sometimes Vegeta seems like he has, then next second he's acting like Goku in this tournament.



+ Son-Goku	Jul 25 2017, 03:05 PM Post #13
孫悟空 Posts: 13,358 Group: Elite Member Member #12,886 Joined: January 24, 2016 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime DB/DBZ/DBS, Code Geass, Gintama, YYH, Death Note, and SAO. What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Dragon Ball, Fairy Tail, and Naruto.	Ssj3vegito96 Jul 25 2017, 02:08 AM Greenough Jul 24 2017, 04:30 PM Even Toyble hasn't handled Goku very well. He branched it off from how Goku was portrayed in the movies. Much more bearable than Super Goku, but still not the Goku we know. So what? Goku isn't a static character. "The goku we know", I'm guessing you mean from Z, was a flawed goku. Not in that he's poorly written but in that he has his well known flaws. He has progressed into what he is now in the Super manga; little more serious, likes to plan more, shows more compassion for others, etc. More heroic like in the movies as you said Goku didn't change that much throughout the Dragon Ball Z. He changed throughout Dragon Ball because he was slowly growing up into a man. In the Super manga they still treat Goku like he's a complete moron, except when he's fighting.
	RP Character Bios Dragon Ball Super: The Super Human Dragon Ball Super: Preparation for the Tournament of Power


+ Ssj3vegito96	Jul 25 2017, 04:36 PM Post #14
Posts: 10,327 Group: Elite Member Member #10,438 Joined: November 2, 2013 Gender Male Country United States Favourite Anime Dragon ball/Z/GT/S, Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood, One Punch Man Favourite Manga DB/Z/S	I don't understand. What's the problem with gokus character in the manga? He's never going to understand complicated things. He's simple minded until fighting. That's what makes him goku He's not that much different than he was in Z. He did go through some development in Z that would make him feel more for others and accept what he is. I think the manga is pretty in line with that. That's how I feel I at least
	IT'S CHEESE Spoiler: click to toggle Top 7 favorite dbz heroes: 1. Sometimes it goku sometimes it's vegeta 2. ^ 3. Teen gohan 4. Future trunks 5. Piccolo 6. Adult gohan 7. Bardock


Mike XL	Jul 27 2017, 09:30 PM Post #15
Posts: 1,181 Group: Member Member #8,239 Joined: September 4, 2012 Favourite Anime Dragonball, Dragonball Z, Gundam Seed, Death Note, Bleach, Yu Yu Hakusho	I think the difference in his character between Z and Super has been overstated. He's always been goofy at times and serious at times. He's been plenty serious at times in Super. Him endangering the world/universe is nothing new, not exclusive to Super by any means. He spared Freeza and gave him energy, gave Cell a Senzu after their fight, etc. He's always been reckless.



1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)

Join the millions that use us for their forum communities. Create your own forum today. Learn More · Sign-up Now
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Dragon Ball Super · Next Topic »

Pages:
1
2